I am studying on my own for Feb 2010 NY bar. I started on Oct. 1st and am looking to start an online support group, or at least where we can check in and see how others are doing. I studied law in Canada and have been working internationally and now am in Vienna, Austria.

My study method includes so far - Bar/Bri materials from 2007, Law in a Flash cards for MBE subjects, Adaptibar, some PMBR charts, and I am considering buying the Emanuel Video Lectures for MBE. I've finished Contracts/Sales, Criminal Law and Procedure, Torts, Evidence and today am starting on Constitutional. I'm also going to do a 3 day essay crash course with BarWrite in Feb in NYC.

Anyways I found criminal a breeze, contracts and torts ok, but surprisingly found Evidence kind of hard. I think it's because Canadian evidence rules are so different. I haven't started on NY subjects yet, I'm going to finish MBE subjects by mid-Nov and then get started on those as well as essay prep, and then review obviously MBE subjects, especially weak areas identified by Adaptibar.

Any ideas, comments on study schedule, planning, etc, welcome.

For evidence, I found it easier to make a spider diagram for the Hearsay subject, since that's going to be most of the exam, of the 803, 804 and 807 topics. Throw me your email, and I can send you the diagram I made up, as well as mnemonics for remembering the hearsay topics.
chibikenshin@gmail.com

I bought the micromash material - started about 2 weeks ago.
The plan is to run through ALL the material once over (light memorising where possible) and then do the material again with greater emphasis on remembering things

so far i have done all of MBE and 2 topis in NY

I am finding constitutional law fairly complicated (with the others quite similar to Aus Law) so hoping to spend a bit of time on that in coming weeks

Will also take the barwrite course as well and do the MPRE in March '10.

Look forward to providing each other with support!

Hello all

I too will be taking the NY bar exam in Feb. but I never thought I needed to start NOW. I was thinking I will start in Dec 15 or so... I have taken another state bar so I know all the MBE subjects so all I have to do is the NY subjects. Now I"m thinking if I'll be okay starting Dec. Any thoughts?

Did you guys go to an out of the US law school that you feel the need to start early or is it necessary to start early in general. Thanks for your inputs.

Feel free to visit my website (completely free). I'm hoping it will help those who are studying for the exam, by giving them an opportunity to ask questions while they are studying. It's especially useful for self-studiers, I think.

Best,

Sean
http://www.mbetutorial.blogspot.com

Hey thanks for your replies. Glad to hear from other self studiers outside of US. Good for you Sidney for already finishing MBE and 2 NY topics. I just started constitl yesterday and I'm finding it very very dry. I also don't have a background understanding of US govt so am finding myself looking up some basic concepts not in bar/bri.

Thanks Sean for your offer, will be shooting some questions your way at some point!

For the anon starting on Dec. 15, you should be fine, considering I remember from law school (McGill) that the bar/bri course for Feb exam always started the day after xmas, and that was for first timers as well who had to work through all MBE and NY subjects. I started early bc I am on mat leave with a baby, and although I have a nanny, I can't be as rigid as usual with my study schedule, some days are just write offs.

Posted By on 02 Nov 2009 07:19 PM
I bought the micromash material - started about 2 weeks ago.
The plan is to run through ALL the material once over (light memorising where possible) and then do the material again with greater emphasis on remembering things

so far i have done all of MBE and 2 topis in NY

I am finding constitutional law fairly complicated (with the others quite similar to Aus Law) so hoping to spend a bit of time on that in coming weeks

Will also take the barwrite course as well and do the MPRE in March '10.

Look forward to providing each other with support!

I had trouble with Con law as well, being from a country that's run by a Prime Minister and a system similiar to England's. Make yourself a table separating the 3 different institutions of govt and list their powers, and remember when the First Amendment can be overridden. Doing some practice questions will help to concentrate the points even further, as Con questions can only be asked in certain ways and you're more likely to see similiar fact patterns in Con law.

to Vienna:

thanks for your post. I feel better now. I was starting to worry that I'm falling behind especially that I will be studying on my own w/o a bar/bri course.

Best of luck to you w/ your studies.


Let's keep in touch in case we have questions. post your con law qs and i'll try to answer.

You will make it much easier on yourselves if you get a BarBri ipod. It's expensive though, but helpful. I have many friends who got it and passed.

Hi there,

are any of your friends willing to sell their ipod?

OR if not the ipod, the NY testing AND/OR the NJ 2nd bar materials. Thanks for your input.

sorry if my post freaked you out - I am working full-time in Sydney and will be doing so right up to the exam so i have no choice but to start early! And yes i went to law school in Australia.

Thanks for the tip on con law Mizzy as well as the hearsay diagram!

why is the bar/bri ipod useful? i think as long as we know the concepts and keep practicing and learning from the qs we do, we shd be ok no?

FYI - i wrote to pmbr and found out that their 3-day final MBE review (which has been recommended on the forum) and the 3-day barwrite programe are on the same days in the week preceding the bar exam. I had all intentions of doing both but will choose closer to the date depending which section i am less confident in (most like the essays).

I considered the ipods but they were too expensive for me. Many other companies offer audio lectures that you can download onto an mp3 for example, for much cheaper. Emanuel offers the 6 main audio lectures for 129 USD that you download on whatever you like. I bought their live streaming video lectures yesterday and watched the Con Law one and it has helped alot. Just nice to sit back and watch a lecture for a change of pace now and then.

what are you guys using for NY MC?
NY BOLE don't release actual questions, so what are we to do?

Posted By Vienna on 04 Nov 2009 03:37 AM
I considered the ipods but they were too expensive for me. Many other companies offer audio lectures that you can download onto an mp3 for example, for much cheaper. Emanuel offers the 6 main audio lectures for 129 USD that you download on whatever you like. I bought their live streaming video lectures yesterday and watched the Con Law one and it has helped alot. Just nice to sit back and watch a lecture for a change of pace now and then.

Emanuel sounds like a great idea Vienna - I will have a look..

re NY multiple choice - I bought the micromash programe and that comes with 361 multiple choice qs with explanations to answers

Hey Sidney, I was referring the guy talking about the ipod to the audio lectures for 129USD. The video lectures are 200 USD. I bought the video ones, although I was torn, since I would have listened to the audio lectures while working out, which I do for one hour a day, but in the end I find it more appealing to watch the lecture. For some reason the volume is not that high on the video lecture, as I've tried watching it on my laptop while on the treadmill but I can't hear it.  So far I've just seen the Con Law one and it's helping a bit, with the big picture, as well as a few little 'hooks' of jurisdiction. I'm going to try to watch an hour or so of video a day, when I'm tired at the end of the day, just to review.

For NY MC, I'm a bit worried about it as well, I only have a used BarBri book that has MC for NY subjects, although they're already filled in, was hoping to try to do them anyways and ignore previous user's choices. I also need to get my hands on any changes in the law since 2007 in NY. I bought an outline from ebay for 2010 but I'm not 100% confident the guy was following all the changes - although maybe there weren't that many. For the moment though I'm going to finish my initial review of MBE and start on NY subjects in about 10 days or so. Welcome any ideas as to NY subjects and how to go about them, where to start....

Btw, have you sent your applications in yet? I just can't decide on laptop or not for essays. I don't have the best handwriting, but I got through 9 years of uni with it up til now, although I'm much more comfortable on laptop. My husband thinks I should definitely do laptop since he thinks my writing is quite bad, maybe he's right.  I know there is a separate post on this subject, I've read it but I still can't decide, sorry to rehash an old subject...

Posted By Vienna on 05 Nov 2009 04:10 AM
Btw, have you sent your applications in yet? I just can't decide on laptop or not for essays. I don't have the best handwriting, but I got through 9 years of uni with it up til now, although I'm much more comfortable on laptop. My husband thinks I should definitely do laptop since he thinks my writing is quite bad, maybe he's right.  I know there is a separate post on this subject, I've read it but I still can't decide, sorry to rehash an old subject...

I have! I chose not to use a laptop - I am really clumsy when i type fast and end up wasting more time correcting typos. My handwriting is not great but its large and readable (and like you, I survived uni on it). To me this decision was obvious (even after reading the separate thread on the subject).

You have a bit of time before applications close - perhaps practice timed essays (one handwritten and one typed) and see which one works, then make up your mind

Re NY: Real Property and Evidence have similar concepts to that of in the MBE (these are the ones I have gone through thus far but I am guessing Torts would also be the same). So these should be easier to get through..

I am also going through the pass exams and answers that you can get on the BOLE website - just reading and picking up concepts as I go - esp with topics I haven't covered yet - I found that that was helping me remember when I actually went through the relevant topic later on

does anyone else has tips for the NY section?

Joe on www.seperac.com also has some NY stuff. He has a compilation of NY rules from all subjects that looks good.

I just booked my flight today! and made a provisional hotel booking in Albany. I heard that it's a good idea to make one in advance b/c they fill up, and most out-of-staters end up there, except for some laptop users. There wasn't much choice - not sure if there ever is or if everything is already booked, but they all look dingy and depressing.

Hi Vienna

I was also a foreign taker. I passed on my third attempt which some might feel does not qualify me to give advice. I think it does because I know what I did wrong compared to the third time when I made it into an exact science.

For my first two attempts I was not organised and didnt have a plan. I failed miserably. Third time I walked out feeling uneasy because I thought the exam was "easier". I was so nervous because I thought I had screwed up and missed something. I passed.

My advice to you have a plan and stick to it. For the third attempt I worked full time 8 - 10 hours a day in a very intellectually demanding job so had to be organised with my time. I did about 3 - 3.5 hrs a day every morning BEFORE work. This way I could not get out of it when I was tired in the evenings. No messing around. My advice to you based on what you have said stick to as few learning sources as possible. You should be focussing on the material and not whether you have the right books ect.

In my opinion I-pods and outlines will not get you through alone as they are "PASSIVE LEARNING". You need to ACTIVELY engage with the material. Save MP3's for travelling time and down time. Instead of just listening and falling asleep, tunr the tape off eveyr now and then and try and guess what the lecturer is going to say next. That way you know you are engaging with the material and taking it in. However I still feel that audio lectures should only be a back up source of learning unless you are an auditory learner.

Instead choose I set of materials - I think people get overwhelmed when they have so many sets of outlines and learning materials. So make a choice at Most 2 sources.

Personally I ONLY used My Barbri Conviser, Past MBE questions & written answers (all 600 prepared by my tutor) and ADAPTIBAR. For the MPT I used about 6 print outs of MPT's from the NCBE website. For the Essays I printed out all the Past Essay papers for the last 8 - 10 years and I RE-WROTE my own paragraphs seperac style on Large Index/ Flashcards.

The first thing I did was split my time up. For example I calculate that from now until Bar Exam you have about 17 weeks. I wrote off the week before the exam for PURE memorising and question review. This gives you 16 weeks.

I personally believe there are 8 MBE subjects (i.e. the basics that everyone should know that will get you through):

1.5 weeks for each = 12 weeks. Also if you study them in this order the subjects "FIT" and "Build" on each other conceptually:

1. Torts
2. Criminal Law
3. Contracts
4. Property
5. Evidence
6. Constitutional Law
7. Criminal Procedure
8. Civil Procedure (NOT an MBE subject but helps to have it down pat early and does aid your understanding of the MBE paper interms of terminology used in some of the questions)

For MBE's my only revision was to ACTUALLY DO THE MBE's - i.e. I aimed for 20 - 30 questions a day with detailed study of Conviser the answers and why I got things wrong. I made notes on flash cards for the ones I kept getting wrong. I even repeated questions again and again. I did all 1400 of the released questions plus the Barbri Mock.

ALSO during the initial 12 week period you should have 3 - 4 hours a week where you review all the subjects you have studied thus far. If you use Adaptibar this is easier because you can just do say 35 questions for each subject at randowm times each week.

Also at the weekends I used to write out essays for the subjects I had already studied with the distinctions. I aimed for 3 essays every weekend but usually just did 1 or 2 and outlined 3 or 4. Also do not be afraid of the essays start doing them early so you get used to the STRUCTURE of them. Use IRAC religiously and brain dump where possible i.e. ALLWAYS define concepts . The aim is to dumb down your essay so much so that even a non legal person would understand what you are saying. Remember rules, tests and amounts where possible. You also get extra points for defining things, rules tests and amounts. The aim is to do everything to get over that 5.5 mark that you need to guarantee safe passage for each essay. Spell EVERYTHING out. Assumne you are explaining everything to a lay person. After all you are infact counselling a client...

ANYWAY this will then give you 4 clear weeks to focus on the Essay Paper subects and therefore 2 - 4 days for each subject depending on the level of difficulty and volume to be learned for eash subject i.e. Business Relations and Wills need more time than Workers Comp.

Also you do not have to write out essays in full. I probaly wrote 1 essay each day and outlines about 4, 5 or 6 essays each day. I would give myself 15 - 20 mins to outline each essay.

Also if possible TYPE THE ESSAY PAPER. IT MAKES SUCH A DIFFERENCE. I CANNOT SUGGEST THIS ENOUGH !!! THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT POINT.

The last week to 10 days I spent purely memorising the law and doing question after question on adaptibar. I also outlines essays in my head constantly.


Good luck all Foreign takers. Its tough but POSSIBLE!

BTW if you can afford it stay at the Crowne Plaza as its a much nicer than the Holiday Inn and there is a free shuttle to the test site. I stayed here for the exam and my swearing in.

They are also v rude at the Holiday Inn Express and mess up your bill. This happened to my freind. His bill was over what was quoted on the phone by $200 despite him having a confirmation and when he queried it they called the Police.

I used the "Bar Exam Mind Set CD- Every State" and found it very helpful to keep me focused and calm!

Hey 2 cents

Thanks for taking the time to write such detailed advice. I agree with alot of what you've said. It was useful to hear about what you propose for the schedule.

Congrats on passing!

Firstly, my2cents, thanks for taking the time to share your views and methods.

I just have a quick question, how long did you dedicate to typing up your notes?

Thanks for all the good info!

Vienna: I am also a former McGill and am going through the US material with a little discomfort...but hope it will get better soon!

I am also aiming to get through the entire material once, doing at least 30 multiple choice on adaptibar per day and take notes on the ones that I miss. I am not sure how many essay questions to do - but will attempt to practice those on weekends for the topics I reviewed during the week. Then, I'll go through the entire material once again with more emphasis on exam practice.

I'll see what happens in Feb 2010! :)
Good luck.

Count me in for NY Feb2010. I am also worried about the MC questions.

Anybody who has previously passed a bar should definitely consider transferring their MBE.

Hey pamplemousse, what year did you graduate? Drop me an email at pob3019(at)yahoo.com.